Desired admin selection process...

pc-gan wrote:Just out of curiousity... how would you guys like to change the system of selecting admins...?

Hey guys and girls,what you think? How should be the admin selection?

Feel free to express your views

Random process will be too risky..
Admin recommendations will be a big help, but the impartiality of the admins should be tested first.
Hundreds and thousands of mails are sent everyday.. So.. Selecting admins from mail ain't upto no good either..
However, there can be another way of selecting admins..
By voting in email!
However.. There is a risk that one will make hundreds of ids and vote himself.. And there will be abusers who will start behaving just for getting votes.
nah.. Vote ain't good.. Totally impartial Admin recommendation is all i can suggest..

hmmmm maybe like 23 admins slected...... invisable and mystery

:s er.. Maybe can you please tell us how those invisible secret 23 admins will be selected?

I thinking like this...

mig33 staff should decide the next admins...
don't need more recommendation from old admins...

it is good better than everything...
mig33 staff members can check the chat rooms after they can select admins...
admin interw should be best..

Mig33 staff can check who is good and who is bad for post of admin..
then, they selected 23 admin this time very invisibly...
I very like to that system...
don't need to change it...

I wish i could agree with u sajith , n i wish they had that much time to visit thousands of chatrooms and find out a few admins . . . Well admin selection has always been a hot topic on forums , selecting admins is not sumting very easy , u have to be very very careful abt it . I'd say WHEN U GET POWER AND POPULARITY , PROUD , DISHONESTY AND GREEDYNESS POPS IN ITSELF. Selection will always be dependent becuz thousands of userz apply but cant be interviewed all together . People change ids , identity , country etc everythng to become admins and hide what they had been doing in the past. This is how they try to fool the team and get the post . Still sum of the admins are really very good and can not complain against them ever . . . Selection will never ever be done honestly however mig team tries but the selection ways they have are totally wrong . Those who do injustice should get demoted straight away

I am strongly opposing admin recommendation system. Sorry for that. We have already seen the consequences. It results us only corruption and favoritism of existing admins. No admin would prefer to find out skilled users from chat room to recommend. they would rather recommend their friends. its nature of human. Every one wants to be powerful and make their community bigger. say, I am an admin, Now darkslayer is my friend, I would recommend him because I know after becoming admin he would be be giving me support. this is natural.

Now get to the business. pc ma'am if you really value our suggestion, I would like to drop a suggestion though it will increase staff's work load. Before admin selection procedure, make a selection team. their job would be to monitor chat room, and pick up famous and popular user who got a positive attitude and decent manner. then inquire on them, ask existing admins about that user then check the chat log, Then interview them.

secondly , you can follow this wanted tester strategy. I like this style. it seems to be something fair. announce in every forum about admin selection then candidates will send application through PM. they will be required to mention their details. in this instance, You guys can give prior attention to famous users like moderators. ( because they already have moderation skills ) here you have an option to investigate whether this user is fake or not. Also you can check his posts on forum. ultimately team should contact them over the phone.

this is how I think the selection procedure would be fair enough. No offence to any admin or user. I just have stated my opinion. you all can post ur opinion too.

Geez.. To be honest, i thought about the room monitoring team before selection procedure, but thought it would be very hard as the number of rooms is incredibly high. And due to kickers, abusers and flooders, many of the good users i know personally stopped going to bangladesh, dhaka, etc etc over crowded rooms.. They just now chat in pvt, or made their own secret rooms to get rid of abusers, so room monitoring will not be fully effective.( i know i know, thats not much of a strong point)
and then again, admin recommendation is not good.. Not when partiality comes into the scene.however..
consider this, riz is an admin, and he knows me as a friend from a long time. If he is really impartial, then he will not recommend me because of the existing friendship, but on quality, if he really thinks me worthy. After he recommends me, will the staffs select me blind fold? Hell no! They will monitor me, will investigate my past, and then if they consider me worthy, they will select me as admin.
Another situation will be like.. I am a good user, and as for behaving, riz will gradually come to know about me, and then recommend me.
But like i stated above, this is a VERY risky process. The impartiality of the admins will be at question.
And about the next idea of riz, selecting from forums..
Hats off to him! The only weak point I can find is that there are some users who don't use forums :S i wanted to mention that there are some ranked users in other forums who are hidden kickers in different rooms. but he already mentioned about checking their logs..
(don't think i am criticizing everyone for nothing, I just like to put the things under the spotlight that doesn't come in other's attention)

ummm... i also strictly don't like admin recommendation. because of that corruption happened on bangladeshi admin gang.

and, dark you are not 100% right... a man will always favor his friends more than quality.... thats the nature of human being... nothing to argue on it...

umm, and about forum, they can select some candidate from forums and then go for further action, like checking chat log, have meeting with them also talk with admin about that user...

and, as u said about non forum user, i think most of the pc user now a member some forums... also i think, admin should be a pc user as now a days its hard to control room from a cell as flooding and kicking is in high gear... so theres nothing bad in this process...

but its upto the mig33 team... coz we can only give ideas...

dark bro, I have said what I have experienced and learned from history so far. Admin cares to recommend only their friends. worth and quality dont matter here. every one knows about selection procedure and chatlog checking system. so admin and their friends also know that. so they never gonna apply with an account which got abusing history. you know what I mean;) and my point is not all about having a fresh history. its not the only requirement you have to have, I think Moderation skill, skills of communicating with multi cultural users, attitude are more prior points.

Say, you are an admin , " A" is ur best friend, But A doesnt have moderation skill, But he got an obsequious manner,he is very good at flattery, he can easily win influential people's favor.

on the other hand, B is an adept user with good moderation skills. you know him very well, he chats in the same room, he is friendly but he doesnt flatter you, he got a good personality.

now you tell me being honest who are you gonna recommend? obviously your friend A. you are even ready to help him in interview. thats how its supposed to be. you would never prefer "B" every one likes to be praised.

Anyways, you might be different. all are not same, But my example goes with 98% users.

If mig33 staffs cant afford to spend times to monitor room and pick up deserving users their selves then I got nothing to say in this instance.

Now about my second proposed option, look bro you are suspecting and wondering if the moderators of forums are multi kickers. the same way some users even suspect admins also multi kick with fake accounts. If you suspect any innocent user to be a kicker there is no way to confirm. because its internet.

But if you are sure, that moderator is a multi kicker. then its not hidden anymore. Mig33 team would come to know sooner the way you have to come to know. their hand and source of information is more extended. dont forget they are gonna have an inquiry on that user.

Forum moderator or rank holder apparently seem to be more deserving.

here are my points to support them :

- They have been keeping up with all mig33 news and updates,

- They know much more than a normal user as they have to help normal users providing information.

- they are more passionate and enthusiastic than normal users. they have come up to the foruming world and putting their valuable times and efforts on it. for what? are they paid? its only because of their passion and love for mig33.

- they are already volunteer of mig33. through these kind of forums they are actually serving mig33 users and helping mig33 team indirectly.

- they had to go extra miles to be a moderator. they have been interviewed. so they got something special with them.

- they are well known users of most rooms, so its easy to have an inquiry on them.

- On top of all, they got the experience of moderation and dealing with users from different culture and country.

So I think they got to be given prior attention. I dont mean normal users dont deserve. there are many deserving users who are not keeping in touch with forums and are not interested in moderation. so mig33 team got to find out them from rooms. If they cant come forth. what can we do. your point was, they dont even go to famous rooms to avoid abusing. so its not possible to find out them from their pvt rooms and and pvt chat. they seem to be peace lover. I salute them.they are real mig33 users. but you know what? you have to fight against abusing to stay in the battle field what they are not interested about. no risk no gain. those users seem to be too sensitive to become an admin. Admin has to face and go through swearing, flooding and kicking. so being admin is not their job. let admins to set up peace for them.

on top of all being admin is not everything. we come to this chat server to communicate with our buddies and make some friends, we didnt come here to become admins. there are lots of decent and peace loving users who even hate to be admin. But admins are like police. without them it would be a nightmare to chat on mig33. so we should help admins do their job perfectly and also help team select deserving admin candidates.

Webministrator wrote:look bro you are suspecting and wondering if the moderators of forums are multi kickers. the same way some users even suspect admins also multi kick with fake accounts.

Webministrator wrote:Mig33 team would come to know sooner the way you have to come to know. their hand and source of information is more extended. dont forget they are gonna have an inquiry on that user

i don't entirely agree with that statement. It first depends on 'which' admin are you, take for instance thaath12 who is also known as bafaa-hibaru who was recommended by Tareq. Mig33 fail to even comment on the issue, if they are unaware of it and are making an inquiry then why are they ignoring it pretending not to see it. The same with our local newly selected South African admin Mr unfair. He's known around here to be multi kicker but made it to the yellow Id either way.

That all can be summed up to being caused by:
- lack of thorough back ground checking.
- putting too much trust on the person recommending
- showing leniency towards other admins

Webministrator wrote:Forum moderator or rank holder apparently seem to be more deserving.

A forum is no better, because also its staff will still consist of people who are friends of the Forum Admin, who maybe also are not deserving of the rank. For example, how did joemac earn the Forum Admin rank here?

Secondly, the forum now has been made to be a way to buy adminship, everyone with interests to be an admin creates his/her own forum which will also be added on his/her own resume when applying to be admin. Something that is supposed to be earned by merit[within mig33]

Webministrator wrote:- they are more passionate and enthusiastic than normal users. they have come up to the foruming world and putting their valuable times and efforts on it. for what? are they paid? its only because of their passion and love for mig33.

Don't agree entirely because this statement is unfair. U can't say they are enthusiastic than normal users because once again it all depends on how they earned the rank. Some may even lose the rank because of neglecting the duties it entails and thats lack of enthusiasm. Normal users can be enthusiastic than Moderators because on Moderators its their duty to moderate not really something they do due to enthusiasm. Whereas with normal users its not their duty to post, visit the forum, and have more posts than moderators. Now who is showing more enthusiasm?

Moderators and Site Admins moderate not because of just enthusiasm but because they have no option at it and can't just ignore posts/topics/users which/who disobey the forum rules, and Normal users have an option of whether i should post or not, meaning posting, to them, may be or is mostly driven by enthusiasm and not duty.

Webministrator wrote:
- they had to go extra miles to be a moderator. they have been interviewed. so they got something special with them.

this can be viewed in two different views. What extra mile does one have to go in order to be a ranked member on forums?

Here's my two procedures:

You have to:
- be active and regular member
- show character and respect towards other forum users
- communication skills
etc...

Atleast thats what i think. But clearly its not really whats happening, because sometimes you have to either:
- be friends with the Forum admin,
- be something on mig33[admin or mig staff] etc...

Take for instance here, in which of the two procedures i mentioned above did Joemac suddenly earn to be forum admin?

Webministrator wrote:
- they are well known users of most rooms, so its easy to have an inquiry on them.

if mig33 keeps chatlogs then why need that one, i mean they have chat logs of everyone isn't it? And accessing them myt probably require just typing in the username of that candidate.

Webministrator wrote:so we should help admins do their job perfectly

exactly, and not entertain a topic with fake snaps or inconspicuously give the poster some suggestions.

I like some of your points, but you have to bear in mind that: "change happens when when you allow it to happen"

The administration system will never be flawless as there's nothing on earth that is without flaws. Mostly with mig33, it will continue to be like that as long as mig33 team still seems to be consisting of only one member[pc gan] and yeah maybe u can include sspidey too.
Martinkow once granted a multi kicker shajib hasan an interview for adminship, luckily shajib failed it. Was that someone doing his job? Granting a well known multi kicker an admin interview just because they're tight mates?
Joemac was once sent by Maga's to clear accusations on tareq and also has been seen to have issued an apology on behalf of tareq. The very same two who failed to restore Mango's id when it was hacked even though Mango himself authenticated his identity while using another id, and strangely it took just mere minutes for sspidey to restore the id back.
They all have administration access to the mig33 server yet it was impossible for them to do something which took sspidey minutes to do, why?

So ask yourself, if the root is rotten, how do you expect the tree to stand? The same with the administration system then. It can be all simple if mig33 removes that part of responsibility from Joemac and Martin an try other more mature people than these two.

I think wen u are an admin,u actually are a prime example of wot a mig user should be like. . But i do know of a couple of admins who were multi kickers prior to becoming admins.. The current admin selection is totally biased n relies on the existing admins choice. . It's altogether natural for an admin to recommend his or her friend and that i feel is totally unfair to other normal users. . The mig team should observe rooms n chatters. . constantly observe the chatters,their behaviour their friends their nature. . It's difficult but not impossible. . Admins could recommend but that should not be a criteria for selection cuz i've seen admins who behave in an indisciplined manner. .an admin has considerable powers. . And this power tends to get misused if it falls in the hands of the wrong ppl. .we've all seen that here on mig exactly how power can be misused. . But the admin should realise that along with power comes a large amount of responsibility. .but that gets forgotten totally wen power is in hand. .the mig team should at least make an effort to note users in various rooms and forums. . Check out participation n regularity,check out language use n conduct n the kinda ppl the user interacts with. . Check out chat log to see conversation. . All this helps determine the kinda person the user is. . Even if a person's faking he or she is bound to slip up wen monitored constantly. . Interviews can be held too as this would give a closer view of the person's character n help determine how fit a person is to moderate on mig. . Otherwise i feel riz n romi are both right n i agree with them

trojan.exe wrote:

Webministrator wrote:look bro you are suspecting and wondering if the moderators of forums are multi kickers. the same way some users even suspect admins also multi kick with fake accounts.

Webministrator wrote:Mig33 team would come to know sooner the way you have to come to know. their hand and source of information is more extended. dont forget they are gonna have an inquiry on that user

i don't entirely agree with that statement. It first depends on 'which' admin are you, take for instance thaath12 who is also known as bafaa-hibaru who was recommended by Tareq. Mig33 fail to even comment on the issue, if they are unaware of it and are making an inquiry then why are they ignoring it pretending not to see it. The same with our local newly selected South African admin Mr unfair. He's known around here to be multi kicker but made it to the yellow Id either way.

That all can be summed up to being caused by:
- lack of thorough back ground checking.
- putting too much trust on the person recommending
- showing leniency towards other admins

that different history though. if your information is solid about thaath, either mig33 team didnt bother to inquire on him as tareq recommended him, by the time we all already have come to know how blindly mig team has put their all trusts on tareq. so its not that mig33 team couldnt have found out about thaath if they did wish. my point was their source of information is extended than us, so they can easily grab all the information and history of an user if they want to. this is why I have been opposing recommendation system.

trojan.exe wrote:

Webministrator wrote:Forum moderator or rank holder apparently seem to be more deserving.

A forum is no better, because also its staff will still consist of people who are friends of the Forum Admin, who maybe also are not deserving of the rank. For example, how did joemac earn the Forum Admin rank here?

Secondly, the forum now has been made to be a way to buy adminship, everyone with interests to be an admin creates his/her own forum which will also be added on his/her own resume when applying to be admin. Something that is supposed to be earned by merit[within mig33]

these days each and every one has got their own forum, but how many forum mig33 staffs visit? I was talking about active forums.

well, I have no idea about other forums, But in our forum it doesnt work like that. we announce before selection. and then we take all applicants to the interview, we arrange a group interview session, which is held on mig33. we interview them with our entire team. we check their posts, we consider how friendly they are, how much times they pass on forum, their communication skills, their post quantities, how they deal with users in a heated situation. in this forum one of my best friend is redhero, who doesnt hold any rank. any staffs wasnt my friend, I didnt even know them, I met some of them for the first time in our group interview session. But yup since we have been working together for a long time, a relation has been build up, we are friendly to each other, but we are not that close friends. we dont even chat with each other without any forum issue.

trojan.exe wrote:

Webministrator wrote:- they are more passionate and enthusiastic than normal users. they have come up to the foruming world and putting their valuable times and efforts on it. for what? are they paid? its only because of their passion and love for mig33.

Don't agree entirely because this statement is unfair. U can't say they are enthusiastic than normal users because once again it all depends on how they earned the rank. Some may even lose the rank because of neglecting the duties it entails and thats lack of enthusiasm. Normal users can be enthusiastic than Moderators because on Moderators its their duty to moderate not really something they do due to enthusiasm. Whereas with normal users its not their duty to post, visit the forum, and have more posts than moderators. Now who is showing more enthusiasm?

Moderators and Site Admins moderate not because of just enthusiasm but because they have no option at it and can't just ignore posts/topics/users which/who disobey the forum rules, and Normal users have an option of whether i should post or not, meaning posting, to them, may be or is mostly driven by enthusiasm and not duty.

Webministrator wrote:
- they had to go extra miles to be a moderator. they have been interviewed. so they got something special with them.

this can be viewed in two different views. What extra mile does one have to go in order to be a ranked member on forums?

Here's my two procedures:

You have to:
- be active and regular member
- show character and respect towards other forum users
- communication skills
etc...

Atleast thats what i think. But clearly its not really whats happening, because sometimes you have to either:
- be friends with the Forum admin,
- be something on mig33[admin or mig staff] etc...

Take for instance here, in which of the two procedures i mentioned above did Joemac suddenly earn to be forum admin?

NOrmal users normally come to the forum to keep up with the recent news and updates, but moderators collect and publish these news and information, which they have to put extra times and effort on than a normal user. An entusiastic normal user must get a rank sooner or later. lets forget not, all recent moderators are ex enthusiastic normal user.

But yup if any enthusaistic user dont show their interest to moderate the forum, we are not supposed to give out our rank to them.


well in instance of joemac, he showed interest to be admin of our forum for a certain period. I dont have any secret or personal relation with him. there was a secret reason, some mig33 admins have a misunderstandings in our admin panel which only staffs are allowed to have access to. Joemac tried to know whats actually been happening and sort out this issue. his issue is completely different. other than him, if you can focus on any else user and accuse they gain rank by having a good relation with forum admin. I would rather go for further explanation.

trojan.exe wrote:

Webministrator wrote:
- they are well known users of most rooms, so its easy to have an inquiry on them.

if mig33 keeps chatlogs then why need that one, i mean they have chat logs of everyone isn't it? And accessing them myt probably require just typing in the username of that candidate.

well, they cant check chatlog of each and every account out of million users. so for preliminary selection I have focused on forum moderators. mate, my first proposal was to monitor chat room and find out skilled and deserving users. but some users have their point against it as well, that staffs are not able to monitor numerous chat rooms and that some decent users dont got to chat room to avoid abusing.

trojan.exe wrote:

Webministrator wrote:so we should help admins do their job perfectly

exactly, and not entertain a topic with fake snaps or inconspicuously give the poster some suggestions.

I like some of your points, but you have to bear in mind that: "change happens when when you allow it to happen"

The administration system will never be flawless as there's nothing on earth that is without flaws. Mostly with mig33, it will continue to be like that as long as mig33 team still seems to be consisting of only one member[pc gan] and yeah maybe u can include sspidey too.
Martinkow once granted a multi kicker shajib hasan an interview for adminship, luckily shajib failed it. Was that someone doing his job? Granting a well known multi kicker an admin interview just because they're tight mates?
Joemac was once sent by Maga's to clear accusations on tareq and also has been seen to have issued an apology on behalf of tareq. The very same two who failed to restore Mango's id when it was hacked even though Mango himself authenticated his identity while using another id, and strangely it took just mere minutes for sspidey to restore the id back.
They all have administration access to the mig33 server yet it was impossible for them to do something which took sspidey minutes to do, why?

So ask yourself, if the root is rotten, how do you expect the tree to stand? The same with the administration system then. It can be all simple if mig33 removes that part of responsibility from Joemac and Martin an try other more mature people than these two.

well though its been belated, but eventually corrupted admins have been demoted. so thats not actually my concern in this instance.

the topic was, how would we like to change the admin selection procedure. so I have replied from my point of view and I have proposed two options which I think could be more fair than the existing ones. look buddy, this is internet, if anyone try to fool around, they can easily do it, for instance I heard some popular admins who got fresh history, multi kick with fake account. how would you trace them? or how mig33 team would catch up them? chatlog cant even help in this issue. so in this worst situation ultimately we have to put our trust on some one.

if you want to be sarcastic, you can find out fault everywhere.

well my best choice would be automated or robotic admins. I have posted about this earlier. But since it seems to be not possible, I have got to propose alternative procedure because I dont like existing selection procedure.



you can post ur opinion too. if you either support exisitng procedure, you can post. or if you have got any else proposal do post here. we should try to find out a better selection procedure rather than just leaving it as it is and keep blaming staffs and existing admins.

wrote:You guys can give prior attention to famous users like moderators. ( because they already have moderation skills )

recommendation system is better than what u've stated it, tell me hw many users hv much quality,education and a good manners than forum mods do? And tell me is it fair from mig33 to pick a users as Admins 4m forums? And last tell me how many good users don't participates in forums?
About the Topic, I'd suggest the random process selection as its better than the recommendation system

One more thing is that Moderating a forum is not as same as moderating chat rooms.

Arabian wrote:One more thing is that Moderating a forum is not as same as moderating chat rooms.

Moderating a mig based forum and chat room is almost similar. Just the difference is chat room is live and kicking system there. but what matters is, ur attitude, ur way of communicating users. A user with forum moderation experience would do certainly better than a fresh user.

Arabian wrote:

wrote:You guys can give prior attention to famous users like moderators. ( because they already have moderation skills )

recommendation system is better than what u've stated it, tell me hw many users hv much quality,education and a good manners than forum mods do? And tell me is it fair from mig33 to pick a users as Admins 4m forums?

so where the forum users come from? why are u isolating forums from mig33? forum users are most active users of mig33. they love mig33 more than other users. thats why they have been involved into these type of mig33 based communities. there are lots of matchmaking, gaming and fun forums around. why users would come and waste their time on a mig33 based forum?

then when pc gan ma'am Published wanted tasters topic on forums why didnt you question her that why you are picking up testers for mig33 from forum?

Arabian wrote:
And last tell me how many good users don't participates in forums?

mate dont just comment on quoting a part of entire post. My first proposed option is, to monitor chat room and pick up deserving users from there. Dont ignore that. If it were possible I would rather suggest interview each and every applicants out of millions who are sending email every day. but it seems to be impossible thats why to shorten the procedure, I just proposed some options what I think could be better.

Arabian wrote:About the Topic, I'd suggest the random process selection as its better than the recommendation system

what do you mean by random process? do you think we never did consider about random process?

look mate, every day many users are applying for the admin position over the email. Many of them are multi kickers. they even send application from multiple email addresses. so do you want mig33 team to reply them all and call them for interview? is that possible? 6/7 customer service officers could ever manage to do that?

ok lets say they are ready to do that what you have defined as a random process. Say I am an abuser. I have sent an email application for mig33 moderator position. I have mentioned this and that bla bla fake qualification. I have so many multiple accounts. some of them dont have any abusing history. so I used one of them. and they call me to the interview session. I showed them a great attitude that I am very friendly and decent. Even I manage a friend of mine to attend the interview for me who is very qualified. what would happen? ultimately I would become an admin. its just an example bro.

you please elaborate what do you mean by random process. Dont take my words otherwise. I am fine with your comments. It would help us get some positive outcomes out of the debate. I have posted and cleared my views and suggestion. You got the same right to do urs.

Webministrator wrote:that different history though. if your information is solid about thaath

hibaru's admitted it, and its also obvious to anyone who observes thoroughly

Webministrator wrote: so its not that mig33 team couldnt have found out about thaath if they did wish.

its not a matter of finding out anymore. Everything is public knowledge and they[maga and hibaru] also aint hiding it either. Still mig33 pretending to be deaf

Webministrator wrote:NOrmal users normally come to the forum to keep up with the recent news and updates

Yes its because they are enthusiastic to know "what new and keep themselves updated", nothing is forcing or compelling them[like DUTY when its moderators] to come and visit the forum. They do it out of their own will, with enthusiasm and dedication to know more and contribute to mig33 with their ideas

Webministrator wrote: but moderators collect and publish these news and information, which they have to put extra times and effort on than a normal user

Moderators are Forum staff, therefore prosperity of the Forum is within their priorities and duties hence they may feel compelled to do what u mentioned above. Once again, its duty, so the moderator shows this enthusiasm while upholding his/her duty as forum moderator by supplying information to users and therefore in return ensure forum prosperity. Their enthusiasm is driven by duty, not entirely self-willingness like on normal users who have an option of whether to visit/post or not.

Webministrator wrote: lets forget not, all recent moderators are ex enthusiastic normal user

of the ways you mentioned above, which symbolise enthusiasm, which did Joemac qualify on?
Was he interviewed too?

Webministrator wrote:well in instance of joemac, he showed interest to be admin of our forum for a certain period

you mean to tell us that if maybe i have less than 10 posts here and approach you saying i have interests to be admin on your forum, you would give me? Bear in mind i'm not asking to be Moderator, Super Moderator nor Technician but i'm asking to be Co-Forum admin...Are you saying thats what happened with him

Webministrator wrote:I dont have any secret or personal relation with him.

lets agree to disagree, and unless you answer my above question then i will admit i was wrong

Webministrator wrote: his issue is completely different other than him, if you can focus on any else user and accuse they gain rank by having a good relation with forum admin

you realise that this statement contradicts the one you mentioned above. Because in a similar sense the above means: "no one else[besides him] earned a rank due to being tight friends with you"

Webministrator wrote: I would rather go for further explanation.

if you feel inclined to, then be my guest bro

Webministrator wrote:
so in this worst situation ultimately we have to put our trust on some one.

what if that someone is not doing what required of him? Instead contributing more to what needs to be solved. Isn't that showing inability to supply solution?

Webministrator wrote:if you want to be sarcastic, you can find out fault everywhere.

i don't see any point on being sarcastic. I always say what i want to say the best way possible that will deliver the message loud and clear.

Webministrator wrote:you can post ur opinion too. if you either support exisitng procedure, you can post. or if you have got any else proposal do post here.
we should try to find out a better selection procedure rather than just leaving it as it is and keep blaming staffs and existing admins.

We blame based on valid reasons, neither you nor them can justify the statements i mentioned on my previous post hence also you chose to be oblivious to them. Secondly, i did offer my own suggestion, here it was:

trojan.exe wrote:The administration system will never be flawless as there's nothing on earth that is without flaws. Mostly with mig33, it will continue to be like that as long as mig33 team still seems to be consisting of only one member[pc gan] and yeah maybe u can include sspidey too.
Martinkow once granted a multi kicker shajib hasan an interview for adminship, luckily shajib failed it. Was that someone doing his job? Granting a well known multi kicker an admin interview just because they're tight mates?
Joemac was once sent by Maga's to clear accusations on tareq and also has been seen to have issued an apology on behalf of tareq. The very same two who failed to restore Mango's id when it was hacked even though Mango himself authenticated his identity while using another id, and strangely it took just mere minutes for sspidey to restore the id back.
They all have administration access to the mig33 server yet it was impossible for them to do something which took sspidey minutes to do, why?

So ask yourself, if the root is rotten, how do you expect the tree to stand? The same with the administration system then. It can be all simple if mig33 removes that part of responsibility from Joemac and Martin an try other more mature people than these two.

i made it red

Webministrator wrote:

Arabian wrote:One more thing is that Moderating a forum is not as same as moderating chat rooms.

Moderating a mig based forum and chat room is almost similar. Just the difference is chat room is live and kicking system there. but what matters is, ur attitude, ur way of communicating users.

i disagree with the matter of relevance of the two types of moderation. From what i can summon, room moderation requires quick decision making, agility, patience and high tolerance etc... You make instant decisions and have to act on them at the same time, whereas on a forum you get a chance to re-read a post a number of times before you actually get to decide what to do.
On forums you get a chance to "preview" a post first[u can't preview a kick] and even more you also get a chance to edit it even when you have actually submitted it[u can't correct a kick] most of all on forums, once you realise that wat you posted was not necessary, you even get a chance to delete it[u can't undo a wrong kick]
yes that one is something that can be done by mig33 team not by Forum moderator turned Admin's skill.

So the thing they share is that you have a duty to restore order and correct what needs to be corrected, but the skill required for both is different

Webministrator wrote:A user with forum moderation experience would do certainly better than a fresh user

Forum moderation doesn't make you any different to normal users. The skill of forum moderation is something that you learn in just 30 minutes or less[as it took me], split topics, edit posts, move posts, merge, stick etc...Now how is it possible that a skill that in acquired in few minutes make you more deserving?

In my view, someone who in real life works on an Emergency response call centre, who handles such hostile and challenging situations can do best as room admin than forum moderator. Now u see that that person can be a normal user or also a forum moderator...

Arabian wrote:recommendation system is better than what u've stated it

yes it would've been, if it was fair to everyone and not only benefit the friends of the people with power to recommend.

Arabian wrote: tell me hw many users hv much quality,education and a good manners than forum mods do?

Arabian wrote: And tell me is it fair from mig33 to pick a users as Admins 4m forums?

i don't get whats your reason for askin this question because it contradicts what you wrote above, wherelse will mig33 get the 'moderators' you spoke of above, if its not forums.

Anyways in my view that closed kind of selection is unfair to other users who use mig33 and not subscribe on forums.

Webministrator wrote: forum users are most active users of mig33. they love mig33 more than other users

so in the same sense this means "if you have no knowledge or idea of the existence of something means you don't love it" is it so?

I'm sorry but i disagree with you because not all users on mig33 are aware of the existence of forums and that doesn't make them to be like they 'don't like' mig33.

All of us didn't know about them, we got invited or stumbled on them by coincidence while browsing etc... Freakitude is the only exception because he is the first mig33 related forum owner.

Webministrator wrote:ok lets say they are ready to do that what you have defined as a random process. Say I am an abuser. I have sent an email application for mig33 moderator position. I have mentioned this and that bla bla fake qualification. I have so many multiple accounts. some of them dont have any abusing history. so I used one of them. and they call me to the interview session. I showed them a great attitude that I am very friendly and decent. Even I manage a friend of mine to attend the interview for me who is very qualified. what would happen? ultimately I would become an admin. its just an example bro.

Forum users can do the same too. Establish themselves a new identity on forums, leaving behind their multi kicking, abusing past. Most of all, if they are to stand much better chance than normal users then its a guarantee that we get such people as admins. We've seen alot of them being exposed, of double identities. Forums are a very easy and effective way to develop yourself a second identity.


Excuse the double post i ran out of characters

can any1 tell me what happend with users who is on mig33 at the beagining ? Users whoi is more then 6h on mig33,every day,every month?! But that users don`t have a recommanditions from Admins ?!
I wait to admin 1year and 6 month ,also i have recommand from my country admins,but i dont know what is enought to be an Admin ?

trojan.exe wrote:you mean to tell us that if maybe i have less than 10 posts here and approach you saying i have interests to be admin on your forum, you would give me? Bear in mind i'm not asking to be Moderator, Super Moderator nor Technician but i'm asking to be Co-Forum admin...Are you saying thats what happened with him

thats not that type. as we the mod have just color and some moderating option, joymac also got that color only... only that admin color, not access to admin panel...

and, as riz said, forum staff got a category of admin panel desk... joymac was given that rank so that he can investigate on that cataloger... nothing else

you cant make joemac the issue in this debate.

I explained and disclosed the secret reason only to make u clear. he hasnt been recruited as a typical forum staff. I said, his story is completely different mate. he has been given that rank only to get access to our moderators panel which is not visible to users. he has got some issue to investigate on And he requested me to assist him in this regard. I cant decline to assist mig33 staffs. Again I am saying buddy he is not my friend. I got a better relation with sspidey and pc ma'am than him. anyways, if any mig33 staff ask us to assist them, we would definitely do that. infact our community is based on mig33. they assist us and we assist them.

Now if you become a mig33 staff and then come n ask me to give u access to the moderators panel to check out whether mig33 admins are messing here or not. I would certainly welcome you, no matter who are you personally.

well now get to the point, your suggestion is to relieve joemac and martinkow and then continue with current selection procedure!! man is that gonna make any difference? are all admins gonna change their mind and nature and start picking deserving users from rooms and recommend them instead of their close friends who always flatter them and make them happy?

My point is to bring the changes in the entire selection system. joemac or martikow here is not issue. if admins would fairly recommend users staffs dont have to favor any one. so first thing first. we gotta have this current selection process changed.

trojan.exe wrote:

Webministrator wrote:

Arabian wrote:One more thing is that Moderating a forum is not as same as moderating chat rooms.

Moderating a mig based forum and chat room is almost similar. Just the difference is chat room is live and kicking system there. but what matters is, ur attitude, ur way of communicating users.

i disagree with the matter of relevance of the two types of moderation. From what i can summon, room moderation requires quick decision making, agility, patience and high tolerance etc... You make instant decisions and have to act on them at the same time, whereas on a forum you get a chance to re-read a post a number of times before you actually get to decide what to do.
On forums you get a chance to "preview" a post first[u can't preview a kick] and even more you also get a chance to edit it even when you have actually submitted it[u can't correct a kick] most of all on forums, once you realise that wat you posted was not necessary, you even get a chance to delete it[u can't undo a wrong kick]
yes that one is something that can be done by mig33 team not by Forum moderator turned Admin's skil

Webministrator wrote:

Moderating a mig based forum and chat room is almost similar. Just the difference is chat room is live and kicking system there. but what matters is, ur attitude, ur way of communicating users. A user with forum moderation experience would do certainly better than a fresh user.

So the thing they share is that you have a duty to restore order and correct what needs to be corrected, but the skill required for both is different

Webministrator wrote:A user with forum moderation experience would do certainly better than a fresh user

Forum moderation doesn't make you any different to normal users. The skill of forum moderation is something that you learn in just 30 minutes or less[as it took me], split topics, edit posts, move posts, merge, stick etc...Now how is it possible that a skill that in acquired in few minutes make you more deserving?

An experienced forum moderator certainly has got those underlined qualities. Forum moderation makes them more confident. My standpoint is they learn the way of dealing users from different country. the courtesy, the manner the way of communicating with users which is most prior matter for an admin.

I am not talking about technical knowledge such as editing, deleting, merging or splitting. if it were all about technical knowledge I would rather recommend a fast multi kicker in admin position. because they are much more faster than us, they can take instant and quick action.

why are you considering forum moderators to be dumb? why dont you think they got a good presence of mind and ability to take quick decision? I never say, a non forum users doesnt have those skills and forum moderators are the ones who got these skills. all I said, they can do much more better than a fresh non forum user. for instance I can show example of many popular admins who are forum staffs. Main point is they are one step ahead than a fresh user. they have got a professional attitude, they dont act like a newbie on their trial. they are more confident.

trojan.exe wrote:
In my view, someone who in real life works on an Emergency response call centre, who handles such hostile and challenging situations can do best as room admin than forum moderator. Now u see that that person can be a normal user or also a forum moderator...

this is the point I can agree with you in. I never neglect a normal user. keep my first suggestion in mind. Anyways how would mig33 team find out who is actually working in a call center? if you mention it in ur resume that you do a call center job. how team would make sure you really do? I certainly appreciate the users doing a challenging job. I myself have worked part time in call center for a year in TELSTRA . Now I am busy with study. most of our staffs are doing challenging job in their real life like cinderella, cristin, anthromorphic, carnage. enigma is a medical student. and rest are studying like aktel and tears of cry is in telecommunication. roma is studying in UK. technician are adept enough to fix PC and mobile technical trouble. we also look for such staffs having a quick and instant decision making ability, presence of mind. we observe their occupation as well.

trojan.exe wrote:

Webministrator wrote: forum users are most active users of mig33. they love mig33 more than other users

so in the same sense this means "if you have no knowledge or idea of the existence of something means you don't love it" is it so?

I'm sorry but i disagree with you because not all users on mig33 are aware of the existence of forums and that doesn't make them to be like they 'don't like' mig33.

All of us didn't know about them, we got invited or stumbled on them by coincidence while browsing etc... Freakitude is the only exception because he is the first mig33 related forum owner.

I never said non forum users dont love mig33. all I said was, forum users love more than they do. because they pass their time on mig33 same as a normal one do. besides they are putting their times n efforts on foruming which normal users dont do. So its a plus point for forum users. they do everything a normal user on mig does. but a normal user is less aware than them as they are not connected to the forums and they are missing many updates and tricks and ideas. First forum owner or a forum staff dont make difference to me. their aim is same. on top of all, all smart and aware users are connected to the forums these days. now dont point our non forum users are not smart. But yup forum users are one step ahead.

trojan.exe wrote:

Webministrator wrote:ok lets say they are ready to do that what you have defined as a random process. Say I am an abuser. I have sent an email application for mig33 moderator position. I have mentioned this and that bla bla fake qualification. I have so many multiple accounts. some of them dont have any abusing history. so I used one of them. and they call me to the interview session. I showed them a great attitude that I am very friendly and decent. Even I manage a friend of mine to attend the interview for me who is very qualified. what would happen? ultimately I would become an admin. its just an example bro.

Forum users can do the same too. Establish themselves a new identity on forums, leaving behind their multi kicking, abusing past. Most of all, if they are to stand much better chance than normal users then its a guarantee that we get such people as admins. We've seen alot of them being exposed, of double identities. Forums are a very easy and effective way to develop yourself a second identity.

No idea about other forums. But in our forum it just impossible. A senior staff ( admin ) of this forum got relieved only for having a fake account. we dont appoint any one having a proxy IP. first off, we check their IP and then all the details, we talk over phone to each other. we got phone number and address of every one. what rax power did with mig33 team, would never be able to do with us. finally I would say, forum users have to pass two test while non forum user got one.

On top all, what I value most, forum staffs got the team working skill. I respect this skill. in every well established company they look for some one having experience in team working. maintaining working with a team is a great deal. A faker and unrefined person could never do that.

Because u r tryin to make a Forum mods has much ability to do the Room moderating than the normal user. Now, I'm forced to drag some Mods in this issue, let's talk about cristin14 do u know who is she? And what was her old mig33 Id?
Let me answer u then; she's a well known abuser and her mig33 id was maldava, she then came to know about mig33 related forums and yea u can knw the rest of hw she become an Admin.
I'll repeat again, being a forum moderator is not a BIG deal. for instance if my self keep posting in this forum or other forums n become a regular i'll defintiely get a rank in the enf of the day.
I'm afraid to tell u WE HAVE MANY MANY abusers Mods in MANY MANY Forums.

Arabian wrote:
I'll repeat again, being a forum moderator is not a BIG deal. for instance if my self keep posting in this forum or other forums n become a regular i'll defintiely get a rank in the enf of the day.

ok to become a forum moderator is not big deal thats why she has managed to become moderator of this forum. so how did she manage to become a mig33 room moderator? its apparently a great deal for you. isnt it?

anyways for ur kind information, post quantities is not the big deal here. one has to pass our group interview session to get the rank, besides we observe how is their communication skills and how important is their posts are. we check IP address. on mig33 its not possible to trace a user but on forum its matter of a click. there are many more formalities our candidates have got to go through. You can say this forum doesnt even have so many members. But we never count registered members amounts and we have got some special rules like our forum mods cant hold rank on other forums. You would probably come to know we never advertise on any site as well as on mig33. we have declined many famous users and forumers only for having rank on other forum which they are not supposed to quit.

Arabian wrote:
I'm afraid to tell u WE HAVE MANY MANY abusers Mods in MANY MANY Forums.

bro, Do never be afraid to speak up the truth. every one knows which forum got abuser staff and who is abuser. But lets talk about this forum while talking about other forum is regardless here.

as far as it concerns me, I never knew cristin or malvada is a abuser. Besides she has always been helpful to mig33 team. Even before becoming admin she helped users of Namibia in real. once the mobile carrier of that country boycott mig33 or something whats why miggers have been disconnected to mig33 for a long time. as far as I concern, cristin/ Malvada help them sort out this issue.

I dont know why do you guys accuse an admin without having any evidence. if you do have any proof or evidence of her being abuser. please go ahead with it. show us. nothing to be afraid of. we would certainly consider your complaint.

what if mig33 team select admin in public without hiding anything?
firstly, i think mig33 team should announce a limited time to apply (for moderator position) in public by using the info message or forum and they should announce clearly from which country they will select admin so that only those country users will apply from where team will take admins.
secondly, i don't think recommendation system was too bad but for some corrupted admins it become the worst system. But still now we can take help from existing admins. just need to add something more. i think mig33 staffs should select some users first from forum, chatrooms, applications and from the recommendation of admins. then check the selected users log, ip etc. after that announce their name in public by using forums or info messages of mig33 so that everybody can share their opinion about the selected users and can complain against them if team selected any wrong user(with proper evidence). isn't it better to complain before selecting them and letting them the chance to kick innocent users?
Now some will say that admin candidates will be the target of abusers after announcing their name in public but i think it will be a test of their temper and obviously they have to face troubles after becoming admin so why not judging them before.

good idea happy. ur post proves it worries you and you have given it a careful thought. I myself also thought about this selection procedure over and over, through and through.

well, I already have suggested to follow this wanted testers strategy. It seems to be fair enough to me. every one has to mention their phone number and all the details which would help protect bluffing and avoid fakers.

either way, admin recommendation would be a plus point. But I have been opposing to leave it all to the admins. what millions of users gonna do who dont have a admin friend? Besides an admin has got hundred friends. how many are they gonna recommend? But yup if any admin request and recommend for any special user team should give them a try.

admins can help in final round of selection, I mean after preliminary selection, team would list some prior users and then would have inquiry on them. then team could ask admins about those listed users.

Forum staffs and users got to be given a chance. Its easy to check their IP and identity. on top of all, they are contributing in mig33 indirectly being volunteer. so in return they expect to be given a chance.

well one more thing should be discussed related to this matter. there are some false story makers who try to put the admin candidates name in black list by writting nasty story against them(candidates). they(story makers) already tried this with many users who seems to be strong admin candidates for the next selection.
i like to request mig33 team to take strong action against them. So that we will get some good users as admin.